Portfolio Intelligence podcast: paying for college without falling into deep debt

This podcast is being brought to you by John Hancock Investment Management Distributors, LLC, member FINRA, SIPC. The views and opinions expressed in this podcast are those of the speaker, are subject to change as market and other conditions warrant, and do not constitute investment advice or a recommendation regarding any specific product or security. There is no guarantee that any investment strategy discussed will be successful or achieve any particular level of results. Any economic or market performance information is historical and is not indicative of future results, and no forecasts are guaranteed. Investing involves risks, including the potential loss of principal.

John Hancock is not affiliated with Lael Oldmixon or the Education Trust of Alaska. 

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John P. Bryson

Hello, and welcome to the Portfolio Intelligence podcast. I'm your host, John Bryson, head of investment consulting and education savings here at John Hancock Investment Management. Today is September 6, 2024. And in the Northeast, September is back-to-school month as we are in an educational mode. We are going to focus today's podcast on financial literacy, specifically as it pertains to college.

To help me with this topic, I've invited Lael Oldmixon of the University of Alaska. Lael serves as the executive director of the Education Trust of Alaska. She has worked in admissions, recruitment, and finance roles for the university, and since 2013, she has been the director of the University of Alaska Scholars and Presidents Scholarships programs. Lael, welcome to the podcast.

Lael Oldmixon

Hi, John. Thank you so much for having me.

John P. Bryson

You got it. Hey, listen, I know over your career you've talked to thousands of incoming students and parents about college. And let's be honest, college is expensive. When you talk to those folks, how do you talk to them about paying for it without falling into massive debt?

Lael Oldmixon

John, thanks for that question. I will say that I have worked at public schools and I've worked at private schools big and small, and this is the most common question that I hear from families―especially families who are debt averse. And the first thing that I just want to clarify for most people is that the ticket price that you see sometimes or often is not exactly the number that you're going to see at the end in your student account.

So, recognize that. You might want to ask some questions of the school, like what is the average aid package and what kind of support do you provide for your student? So outside of that, what I would say is … make sure that before you consider your scope of college, if you create a budget, you think about what … what your family has available to you and then also think about what you are willing to borrow. And that will help with making decisions about the types of schools that you want to look at. But again, don't let the ticket price turn you off. Make sure that you're asking those very difficult questions about what the average scholarship amounts are, or what the average aid package looks like at that school. You do want to find a college that fits your budget, or that will help to meet your college cost, help to keep your college costs low. So this is an absolutely critical piece of your questions that you are going to be asking the admissions office or the financial aid office. You also want to make sure that you are borrowing the right amount. So I mentioned that before you're going to be offered a financial aid package. You do not have to accept everything that is offered, particularly the loan.

You want to be really smart about how much you are willing to take out because every dollar that you take out, you'll be paying interest on later as you pay it back. You also want to be thinking about your credit. You want to be thinking about the loans that you might be eligible for based on your credit, or if you are not able to cover all of your costs for college with loans and with your other aid or your 529 accounts. You may have to pay for some things with credit cards and that can be a little bit scary in terms of folks maybe not taking out or charging everything to their card and not considering the … the pay back later on that as well. Because, again, every dollar that you put toward credit, you're going to have to pay back and potentially pay back with interest. I'll also talk a little bit later about how you can think strategically about keeping your, your loan cost low, and some of the guidance that I've given in the past to families on that.

John P. Bryson

That's really helpful. And some of these kinds of basic blocking and tackling components are really important and easily overlooked. So, for example, to create a budget if I were to, say, to my senior in high school, “Hey, listen, you need to create a budget.” So, she would look at me with this blank look, and I think that's pretty common with a lot of adults too. So if you're talking to a college student or a parent of a college student, what should they consider when creating a budget? Let's get into the details.

Lael Oldmixon

Thanks, John. Here is the meat and potatoes of it. You need to understand what your resources are, where your income is, and then you need to understand what your bottom line is, what your expenses are. So when you're thinking about your resources, you want to think about the job that you have, that you might be earning money to put toward college that you've built up in your savings account, or your 529 account.

You want to think about your parental or maybe grandparent assistance that will be available to you and count those dollars or estimate those dollars that you will have. Again, the 529 account. If somebody has been saving for you, you want to count those dollars in as well. And then, what financial aid and scholarships do you think you'll be eligible for? Then you want to look at your expenses. So how much are you going to have to pay in tuition, in housing and food, in textbooks? All of the fundamentals of paying for college. And then also the fun things like, you know, maybe your entertainment while you're in college, or maybe the travel that you're going to have while you're in college.

So then you're going to compare those lists together. And if they're, you know, overspending, if you don't have enough money from what you're anticipating your income is going to be, then you're going to need to adjust your expenses, and maybe decrease some of the areas of unnecessary spending. So, for example, like less pizza or fewer nights out with your friends. There are some areas that you're not going to be able to adjust. For example, the cost of tuition is probably not going to go down. The expenses of books or your housing or maybe your meal plan, you could adjust because they do have different food options at school, but you're still going to need to eat. You can also consider increasing your resources. So maybe you want to get a job while you're on campus.

Personally, I recommend getting an on-campus work, study job, or another student job and working to try to balance that with your academics. I would suggest not more than 15 hours per week because, really, what you should be thinking about when you're enrolled in college is that this is your 40-hour-a- week job, and that the student job or the work study is added on top of that. So you want to be able to attend class, do your homework, and then add on the additional work time that you can make.

John P. Bryson

That makes a ton of sense. When I think of the, just the process of a parent going through this, walking through it with their child or financial advisor, walking through it with the parent and the child together, it's a great discipline to have for going to college, getting ready for college, and really for the rest of your life. Like not knowing how to budget for what you want to save or knowing how to manage your  spending―critical, critical things, you know―that everybody needs to know, and it's a great life lesson. So let's pivot a little bit and talk about debt. We are trying to avoid debt, but sometimes that's impossible. We might have to get a loan one way or the other. What's the difference between some good debt and bad debt that you talk to folks about.

Lael Oldmixon

Okay, so you may … you definitely may have to take out a loan. And that's just sort of the fact of, of how, steps or how financing college works if you haven't saved the full amount for maybe … for four years of, of college. So when you're offered financial aid, which you would be offered, federal financial aid, you could be offered institutional aid or you could be offered private loans, or you could apply for private loans. And what I will say, in order of priority is that you want to complete the Free Application for Federal Student Aid so that you can see what federal aid you might be qualified for. So that includes grants, it includes loans. And with the loans that they offer, they have subsidized loans, and they have unsubsidized loans. So those are the best loans you could possibly ask for, because they typically have the best interest rates and are also capped.

So with the subsidized loans, that loan is probably the best loan that you could get because your interest will be delayed. It doesn't start accruing until after you have graduated from college. The unsubsidized loan, you will start paying … or the interest will start accruing while you are in college. And it's important to know the difference there because, again, that interest could be up to 8% accruing while you're in college.

You might be offered a whole bunch of unsubsidized loans, and you might be offered a whole bunch of subsidized. What I would recommend, and what I do recommend to families, is that you try to accept. If you have to take out a loan, you try to accept more of the subsidized loan and less of the unsubsidized, and also do not take out more than you need in loans. Now, if you go, again, go into the private loans, or go into having to put items on a credit card. The last resort would be credit card. I would absolutely stay away from that if you have the ability to do that. Again, it's debt that you just do not want to start with that by. You know, when you graduate, you just do not want to start with any additional debt than you have to.

John P. Bryson

Yeah. And the upfront work to do the research on the loans dramatically outweighs the … the higher interest rate costs of just going with your credit card. There's no doubt about that. That … that's great advice. So, when I think about planning for college, you want to find the right school for you, and you want to figure out how to pay for it. And there's a tradeoff, though, like you're looking for a job after graduation. If that job is going to pay more, you're willing to pay more for college, right? There's some value there. If you think in that way, how can you get more comfortable with what your, your, after graduation payments might be? And then you can think about, does that match up with the job? Any advice for folks there?

Lael Oldmixon

Absolutely. There are so many calculators available to families and to students who are interested in understanding what … what payments might look like, but also then, what a career might pay. So, I know in our higher education authority for the state of Alaska, we have a whole jobs suite that talks about what you might get paid after graduation if you pursue a credential in that area. And then you can go to the financial aid calculator like studentaid-dot-org-slash calculators, or mapping-your-future-dot-org or student-loan-gov and see what your potential payback might be. If you're looking at a career that might not have a … a salary that you can pay back, that's equivalent to what you would be paying back or more than what you'd be paying back, then you might want to consider a school that is a little less expensive for that career, and that would get you to the job either way. So there's some. It's a little bit tricky because some schools sound great. And I'm going to just use the degree in social work as an example. A degree in social work is not necessarily going to come with a big salary at the end. And so it may make sense to look for a school that has a good reputation and also cost less than maybe a school that has, a higher bill.

John P. Bryson

Higher bill for a premier, the premier reputation. Okay. That makes a lot of sense. What, what other factors should people be considering when comparing college costs? The whole picture?

Lael Oldmixon

Well, the whole picture … things that I see often are not considering what it will cost for fees, or what the what the books might cost, or computer expenses, or the … the day-to-day costs that you might have. Additionally, I think folks forget that they have to travel often to where they're going. And so, if it's going to cost a flight, for example, folks that come from, the lower 48 to Alaska, have to account for their flight time, or have to figure out how they're going to travel in and out of Alaska without a plane.

John P. Bryson

That's an interesting one I never really thought of. I guess the corollary is kind of like being house poor, right? You bought this amazing house, but you can't go do anything because you're spending it. You might find a college that's a perfect fit on paper, but think about the other costs: Cost of living in that area, costs of commuting back and forth to that area, etc. So that's really good insight. I never thought of that. Let's talk about credit history. You know, young adults probably don't understand so much about credit history. What should they know about it?

Lael Oldmixon

So having credit history is actually not a terrible thing. You know, it helps you eventually be able to maybe get a loan for a car or house for your mortgage. It's a positive thing to have credit history. So, for folks who are not familiar, often your credit score, FICO score, is used to measure what lenders are willing to lend you or how much credit they're willing to extend to you. So if you do apply for a credit card or, apply for any credit anywhere, you want to make sure that you're not applying needlessly. And I'm going to just tell a personal story about a pair of gold lamé pants that I had to have from Express in the early 2000s. And so I opened up a store credit card so that I could get a discount on these pants. And boy, did they look good, but I paid. That took me so long to pay off that credit card and it was an unnecessary credit card for me to have. So later in my life, when the FICO score was looking at how many lines of credit did I have open, my score was lower because I had some store credit cards.

I got rid of those and my FICO score eventually did go up. The other thing to know about credit is that … like, if you put things on credit, you have to pay the bills on time. Because then if you don't, it accrues interest. And before you know it, the $89 that you spent on that pair of pants goes up and you're paying $150 for those so you haven't actually saved any money. So you want to account for that as you build your budget. If you're going to have a credit card, you need to be able to pay it off every single month.

John P. Bryson

It's amazing if you think about the ripple effect, right? Small decisions early on in life. If you have a bad credit score, your loan, amount payment … amounts going to be much higher. It's going to have this compound effect, compound effect that you didn't really think through. So that's really great advice.

Lael Oldmixon

So it really is.

John P. Bryson

Yeah. It's sad but true. Right. You don't realize the pain of it until you look back over time. So … so you shared with me some great advice. Create a budget. Find a college that fits your budget. Borrow the right amount. Just because you get a loan offer doesn't mean you need to use it. Know your credit. Keep it. Keep the score strong and keep loan costs low. Any other ways that you are coaching incoming freshmen or parents to keep costs low or make sure that you're financially sound?

Lael Oldmixon

There are so many ways that you can keep costs low. One of the things that we see a lot of students taking advantage of right now are the placement classes that they can take in high school or doing dual enrollment with a university. So they're coming into college with a little bit of a head start and some credits that help them have a lighter load maybe later or, complete in a really timely manner.

Lael Oldmixon

Applying for grants or scholarships. So grants are funds that you don't have to pay back later. It's free. Free money for you. And scholarships are the same thing. And there are so many scholarships that people don't take advantage of that. It's … if folks just apply for them. They would probably get them, making sure that you have a diverse resume from high school. So, for example, if you are a volunteer or an athlete or you participate in student activities in high school, there are a number of scholarship programs that look for well-rounded, active contributors to the community. Other things that you can do … One of my favorite things that we offer here in Alaska that's a national program, is a national student exchange.

So between the our university here at the University of Alaska and other universities, a student can come here and pay an in-state rate and then go and visit Massachusetts and attend a school there at Alaska's in-state rate. So there are ways that you can get out and see the world without having to pay excessive amounts. Again, I just want to repeat here, complete the FAFSA, the Free Application for Federal Student Aid, even if you think you do not qualify. A lot of states have fellowship programs that require a FAFSA to be completed. For example, in Alaska, we have a scholarship program where individuals can get who are Alaska resident … can get up to, $7,000 a year if they just complete the FAFSA and complete the academic performance they are supposed to do in high school. That's huge, but you have to complete the FAFSA. I know other states have very similar programs and I would highly recommend that folks look into those options.

Another way that folks can keep college costs low is to think about a major in advance, declare the major, and complete the coursework. I know that sounds really simple, but the longer you delay and the longer it takes you to graduate, the more you end up having to pay and the potential that you have for, taking on unnecessary debt.

John P. Bryson

What's that? That's really good insight. So, so help me with that one a little bit more. So if you know your major, you're saying take as many in high school or early in college? Just refine that for me.

Lael Oldmixon

Early in college. What I would say is the earlier you decide what you're going to do, and I'll use myself again as an example. I was undeclared for the first two years of college. They called it exploratory where I went to school. What I did right in that situation was I completed all of my general education requirements that I would have to complete for any major, and then I declared my major. And once I declared the major, I worked hard to complete the requirements for the major within, the four years that I was aiming for. The national average for graduation, I think, is six years. And, so if you imagine the difference between paying for four years of college and six years of college, there's a real financial benefit to getting in, making a decision about your major and … and, graduating on time.

John P. Bryson

Okay. That's really interesting because I'm in your boat. When … when I went, it was kind of, “Check a couple things out, see what you like, and then gravitate toward the major.” If one doesn't jump out at you right away, your advice is focus a little bit earlier. You're going to avoid the fact that you might need to pick up a couple extra credits, therefore, pay money. Pay more money … you're going beyond four years. That's really interesting advice. I'm glad. I'm glad I asked you to clarify that. I think that's something that you don't hear a lot, but talking to an expert like yourself, that's great insight. Well Lael, this is fascinating. I do appreciate your time. It's always interesting to find, insight like this from an expert. So. Thank you. So much for joining our podcast today.

Lael Oldmixon

You're welcome. It was great to be here.

John P. Bryson

All right. Hey, folks, as always, if you want to hear more, please subscribe to the Portfolio Intelligence Podcast. You can find us on iTunes, Spotify, or wherever you find your favorite podcast. You can also find us on your website. You can catch up on all of our viewpoints around investing, business building ideas, education, savings, and much, much more. As always, thanks for listening to the show.

Important disclosures:

This podcast is being brought to you by John Hancock Investment Management Distributors, LLC, member FINRA, SIPC. The views and opinions expressed in this podcast are those of the speakers, are subject to change as market and other conditions warrant, and do not constitute investment advice or a recommendation regarding any specific product or security. There is no guarantee that any investment strategy discussed will be successful or achieve any particular level of results. Any economic or market performance information is historical and is not indicative of future results, and no forecasts are guaranteed. Investing involves risks, including the potential loss of principal.

John Hancock is not affiliated with Lael Oldmixon or the Education Trust of Alaska.