This podcast is being brought to you by John Hancock Investment Management Distributors, LLC, member FINRA, SIPC. The views and opinions expressed in this podcast are those of the speakers, are subject to change as market and other conditions warrant, and do not constitute investment advice or a recommendation regarding any specific product or security. There is no guarantee that any investment strategy discussed will be successful or achieve any particular level of results. Any economic or market performance information is historical and is not indicative of future results, and no forecasts are guaranteed. Investing involves risks, including the potential loss of principal. 

 Nancy Steenson is not affiliated with Manulife John Hancock Investments and is being compensated for her time. Manulife John Hancock Investments takes no responsibility for the accuracy of the content and the views may not necessarily reflect those of Manulife John Hancock Investments, nor does Manulife John Hancock Investments endorse the use of any of the applications referenced. Before using any of the programs and/or applications referenced, please ensure that you have permission from your firm to use them. Likewise, consult with your tax or financial professional before making any investment decisions.

MF4481527 

John P. Bryson

Hello and welcome to the Portfolio Intelligence podcast. I'm your host, John Bryson, head of investment consulting and education savings at Manulife John Hancock Investments. Today is April 17th, 2025, and we're on the verge of May. And May, as you know, is 529 month.

At Manulife John Hancock Investments, we believe a 529 plan can help investment professionals stand out from the crowd. It can help you attract net new assets and new referrals. It can help you connect with the next generation of clients and most importantly, can help you pay for college.

The other part of preparing for college is understanding the process. And most importantly today is understanding the current landscape around standardized testing in the college. Admissions process. To dig into that topic, I've invited college admissions coach Nancy Steenson to the podcast. Nancy is the owner of Steenson College Coaching. She was one-on-one with high school students, helping them to market themselves in the best light possible by sharing underutilized strategies to help distinguish them from the other thousands of applicants. With her guidance, students have had great success in finding and applying to colleges that are a wonderful academic, social, and financial fit. She's also an instructor in a professional program in college admissions consulting at the University of California, Berkeley Extension and speaks extensively on the topic nationwide. Nancy, welcome to the podcast.

Nancy Steenson

Thank you. John, I'm so happy to be here.

John P. Bryson

All right. Hey, listen, I mentioned college admissions is important in preparing for college admissions is important. Standardized testing is a big part of that. So let's go back and talk about what's changed since the pandemic and what's going on now. My first question is our test scores are still optional at most colleges like they've been since the pandemic, right?

Nancy Steenson

So the short answer to that is yes, most colleges are test optional; however, the longer answer is it's a little bit of a complicated situation. While most colleges are test optional, and keep in mind, John, there are about 2,800 four-year higher-ed institutions in this country and most of them are still test optional. Most will probably remain test optional, but we are seeing a lot of flavors here, amongst different colleges.

We're seeing some colleges that are test blind, which is also called test free, meaning we don't want to see a score and we will not consider a score when we evaluate the applicant. We are seeing colleges that have gone back to requiring tests. That is a small cohort, but it's slowly growing and it is for the most part highly selective institutions and some state university systems.

We're seeing another flavor called test flexible. And that would be, well, if you don't want to send a standardized test score that we usually require, that would be an SAT or an ACT score, then we need to see something else. It might be AP or IB test results. It might be a graded essay that the student wrote in school.

So it is a little bit complicated. And, and the fact of the matter is many colleges have announced that they are going back … those who have announced that they're going back to requiring testing have let us know that, and some have let us know they're going to go back in 2027 because grade inflation continues to be a real thing in many, many high schools. Colleges are looking at this carefully, and many of them are acknowledging that the score can add value to an application.

John P. Bryson

That, you know. All right. So it's flexible. It's optional. It's always evolving. Do you recommend for most students to take the SAT or the ACT? I mean they've got a lot on their plate already. What's your thoughts there.

Nancy Steenson

So here's what we know. A score, if it's submitted by a student, may help the application, but it may hurt. But what we also know is that it never hurts to take the test and then decide if the student should submit it or not. We can always make that decision later. So it's a good idea, in my opinion, for students to think about taking … taking one of the tests, seeing whether they have the aptitude, the ability, the learning style to achieve on that test.

I always equate it to, applying for a job and a master's degree is not required for this particular job, but you've got one, so that makes your resume pop. It makes you look a little bit, perhaps better in the applicant pool because you're adding some … some … another, another feather in your cap. So even for colleges that … that are not requiring test scores showing a very nice test score for that college is a plus.

So I tell my students there's no harm in taking the test. If you decide you don't want to submit it, you do not have to. Think about taking a pre-ACT. or a PSAT. They're both for practice. And then figure out your testing plan from there. Keep in mind that you always have the opportunity to take another one, and take another one and prep in between, because colleges will always super score, and that means they will take the highest sub core from various different testing dates. So if it doesn't hurt you to test a couple or three times.

John P. Bryson

Okay. Really interesting. So you led me to another question. What do people need to know about the differences between the ACT in the SAT?

Nancy Steenson

So that's another evolving landscape. It used to be years ago that the SAT was what everyone took on the East Coast. And students in the South, the Midwest and … they took the ACT. They're both national testing organizations. All colleges that accept test scores will happily take either the ACT or the SAT, and students who take one or the other are not, are not looked upon more … more favorably.

So it's really a good idea for students to look at both tests and ask themselves, which test might I do better on? Because they are different, even though they're … they're, they're … they're both testing the same kinds of skills and knowledge. They are … they are quite different. We often say that the ACT is a great test for quick thinkers, and the SAT is a great test for deep thinkers.

Traditionally, the SAT has been longer, quite frankly. Less black and white, much more nuanced … requires a deep level of thinking, but you have the time to do it. The ACT has traditionally been a little bit more straightforward. Not three right answers picked the most, right? But one right answer. But it moves very, very fast. You have less time for the ACT. So students really have to move it along. So it's really for two different kinds of students, two different kinds of brains to make it even a little bit, more … more complicated. And the SAT went digital not … not very long ago. So students now have to take the SAT on the computer.

That's not come without its wrinkles. But … but here we are. When they do that, the … the test is now shorter than it used to be. So it used to be a longer test. It's a shorter test. However, it's still a good test for deep thinkers. It's got the math, and it's got the reading. Interestingly, it's an adaptive test.

And that's something that educators understand. It means after you do the first section of the reading, if you do really well, you get a harder second section, and so on with the math. If you do not so well in that first section of math or reading, then you get the easier second section, so you lose the opportunity to gain what we might call, you know, a perfect score.

So, this adaptive testing has been used in education quite a bit. It's new to national standardized testing at this level, but that's what the SAT is doing. The ACT followed suit, and they decided they were going to go digital, but they're still offering the paper test. So right now, students have the opportunity for either one and that's something to think about if they prefer a paper test. Lastly, the act involves a science section, and the SAT does not. But interestingly, the science section doesn't really test your knowledge of science. It tests your critical thinking. You're given a set of data, and then you have to interpret it and answer some questions. So I would say to any student to figure out which is the right test for them.

And if they want to take that a step further, many many tutoring companies offer a free proctored diagnostic SAT and ACT practice tests that they can score and advise the student which one is better suited for them.

John P. Bryson

That's excellent. So, so far I'm picking up that even though it could be optional, having the SAT or ACT in your back pocket is going to be a great idea. Pick the right one for you, whether you're a quick thinker or more of a methodical thinker. But I want to go back to one other thing: How do you make that decision after you've gone through the process? You've got your score. Give us a little bit more information on whether or not to submit the score when you're applying. What's the options there?

Nancy Steenson

So the first thing a student should do is look at the college website. Each of the colleges that they're applying to click on admissions, click on, you know, testing and see what the … what the policy is for that school. And then I would, frankly, read between the lines. First of all, it's going to be very clear whether they're test optional, test required, test blind.

But for those who are test optional, you first want to look at the range of scores of admitted students and most colleges will show you a bar graph, or they will give you the mid-50th percent or the 25th to the 75th percentile of scores of either students who applied or students who are admitted. And those are two different numbers.

But different colleges use different numbers. Either which way you've got a mid-50th and you want to be in that sweet spot. Now, quite frankly, if you interviewed a thousand of my colleagues, I'll bet you that 50% of them would tell you that you want to be at least at the 50th percent point, and the other half would tell you, well, as long as you're in that range, at least at the 25th, you would get … you would get conflicting advice, because this whole landscape of test-optional college admissions has is … is not very transparent and has an enormous amount of people a little bit confused because the message has not really been clear.

So the fact of the matter is some would advise minimum 25th percent, some would advise be at the 50th, but it's somewhere in that range. Consider whether that score also is a good reflection of who you are as a student. But … but if it's not anywhere close to that range, it is rarely a good idea to submit the score.

Students coming from more disadvantaged backgrounds who clearly don't have the same curriculum in their high school that more advantaged students do, who clearly have not had the ability to get expensive tutoring and so on. Colleges acknowledge this. And for those … for that subset of students, sometimes we do advise sending a lower score that's a little off that radar of 25th to 75th, especially if that score is very good for that student’s school.

So you can see that different situations mean … mean, different set of advice. But the most important thing I really want to convey here is that for colleges that are test optional, read their website. Many of them are giving a message without being very direct. For instance, we have … we have seen through research that scores are a great value in our process.

Of course we don't require them, but they … we do value them. You have to read between the lines and understand that they sort of want a score. The other data point is to understand how many of the admitted students … admitted students sent scores in. And sometimes they'll say that as well. We don't require scores. But keep in mind that two thirds of the students we have admitted over the past few years did submit their scores.

That's sending a very strong message. They want to send the message of equity that if you don't, can't, won't send a score, we will still read your application, but they're speaking out of both sides of their mouth because they're also saying, but we really want a score.

John P. Bryson

That makes a lot of sense and it's good insight to that point of read between the lines. They're … they're, indicating their preference ... and when … when in doubt, try to follow that preference. That's great. Hey, Nancy, it's always great to catch up with you. And we get great insight and the landscape's evolving. Last question for you today is, what are some of the other changes that you're anticipating whether it's around the test prep or other parts of the college admissions process?

Nancy Steenson

Well, I mentioned that the ACT has a science section, and they recently decided that it's going to be optional. Students do not have to take the science section. That's … that's been very unclear for students because they don't know if colleges are going to want it. I'm asking on all my college visits. And John, as you know, I visit dozens and dozens of colleges a year.

I'm hearing colleges say that if the ACT is not requiring you to take it, then we're not requiring it either; however, if you think you might want to major in science or the STEM field, you might want to go ahead and take that optional science section. So, we may get more clarity on that down the road, but that's something to keep in mind.

And the other thing regarding the testing landscape is that we have to keep our ear to the ground, because there are colleges, even as we speak, who are or will be meeting to decide whether they're going to require standardized testing for the class of 2026. That would be our juniors, our rising seniors, specifically some public university systems. They have to wait for their boards of directors to have their annual meetings in mid- to late spring.

So we could be hearing as late as this summer that they are going to various institutions or … or public university systems may be announcing that they're going to require scores for students in the class of 2026. So, know that that could happen. And like I said, I think that the ones who are going to flip on this are likely going to be the very very selective private institutions and … and … and possibly, public university systems as well, because if they're at the mercy of their boards of governors.

John P. Bryson

Well, Nancy, I'll tell you this, we've had you on the podcast before. You've been one of our most popular podcasters, with the changing landscape, we're just going to have to have you back again in the fall. Maybe.

Nancy Steenson

I'd love it. John, thank you so much.

John P. Bryson

Well, thanks for joining, folks. Thanks for listening in. If you want to hear more, please subscribe to the portfolio Intelligence Podcast. You can find us on iTunes or wherever you subscribe your favorite podcast. You can also visit our website JH investments.com. You can read about our viewpoints on what's going on in the markets. We can hear … talk to you about what's going on in different business building ideas and much, much more. As always, thanks for tuning in. Take care.